Ep16-Edited-Declicked
[00:00:00] Eric: Hello, and welcome to podcast. Number 16 of the 11 parsecs podcast. My name is Eric. I'm here with my good buddy, John.
Jon: Hello.
Eric: And today we are encountering our first two episodes of the clone Wars. So if you haven't listened to this podcast before, let me give you a quick background of what this podcast is.
Basically, we're trying to go through all of the star Wars, new Canon universe in chronological order. So when we say chronological order, we mean BBY before the battle of the Avin, which is usually looked at as kind of the center point, this zero. Think of it as a, in the Gregorian calendar is like a Christ.
So you have everything BC or BBYbefore the battle of the oven. And then you have everything at AB Y, which is after the battle of the oven. Currently we are on the 16th. Episode of our podcast and we are all the way up to drum roll, please. 22 baby Y which really isn't that impressive. So when we started this podcast podcast one, the first thing we did was we read a book by a, I think it was [00:01:00] Claudia gray called Mashburn apprentice that was done at 40 BBY.
So over the last 15 podcasts, we've slowly moved up to the year 22 BBY. Now some of you who know star Wars may know the 22 BBY was also the exact same year that the clone Wars or attack of the clones, I should say began. And the technical cleanses movie came out. So if you've been following us on the podcast, we watched episode one, the Phantom menace on podcasts.
I think number four. For we read docu Jedi last or sorry. We listened to docu jet. I lost the audio drama, which happened around 25 view. Why we've read queen shadow, which was a book that came out at 27, 28, B Y. And finally, we have read comics. We have listened to audio dramas. We have watched movies. We are finally at the point where we are beginning TV shows.
So in 22 BBY, right after the star Wars attack of the clones. There's an order to the TV shows that we are going to be watching them. This order is based on the BBY or the time that the actual episode happened in the star Wars universe. Not [00:02:00] necessarily the order in which they came out. So today we're going to be reviewing two episodes that happened in 22, BBY the clone Wars episode, season two, episode 16, cat and mouse, and then followed by that.
We're going to also be reviewing. The Clinton Wars season one, episode 16, the hidden enemy. So again, if you're used to watching the clone Wars from when they came out, we're jumping around a little bit just to keep within our chronological order BBY, but I'm kind of excited about this because it's our first TV shows.
I mean, this is, this is a really cool medium that we haven't yet talked about. And of course with Disney plus and everything, it's great to watch, easy to watch and not really worry about anything. But before we get started as always, John, what are you drinking tonight?
Jon: Okay. So finally, to the part of the podcast I enjoy, this is a new Belgium.
I don't, I haven't had this one new Belgium captain dynamite,
Eric: PA. That is a very, very good beer. Yes. Is it? That's the red, that's the red label. No, no,
Jon: no. It's used to be like
blue and green.
Eric: Oh, okay. Maybe think of something else. It [00:03:00] was dynamite. There was one that I read. There was a, it was futu something that was a red label.
It was so good. It was, I need to, I need to go back and find it is a higher plane because that's higher plane. That's exactly what it is. Could call it. It was, it was exactly a higher plane. Tonight I'm doing something a little lot and I'm eager to see it. And I, I meant this is gonna sound really bad. I meant to actually bring one of these over to your house because it's such a weird flavor.
But I wanted you to try it. Yeah. So this is a violative brewery called fire Baker, which is I didn't actually know them until I bought the six pack. I've never heard
of
fire
Eric: maker yet. It's pharmaco brewing there in downtown Atlanta on Chattahoochee Avenue. All right. So probably a newer brewery just cause you and I keep up with Atlanta breweries fairly well.
And this one was a very new thing, but I bought this knowing that it probably was not going to taste good, but actually we'll just listen, just listen though. I actually have, I actually had one and I like really liked it and I really was dumbfounded why I liked it. And let me tell you the name of the brew, the Chattahoochee T [00:04:00] Southern IPA.
Oh, Oh, Oh, Oh. What do you, what do you think of the say? It's like,
Jon: it's like ice tea, beer
Eric: creating the Southeastern IPA, a nod to the Southern delicacy. That is sweet tea, Chattahoochee tea, Chattahoochee tea is steeped with a custom Tableland and lactose. That makes it sweet. Like the self brewed with hints of honey and malt and dry, double dry hopped with lemon drop.
And Matejka. Our unique IPA is a true Southern tree. Okay. I bought this on a whim just because I was like, this would be really good to just have on a podcast, fresh out, try it, and then just be like, okay, this is a tea based IPA. This is not good. John. This is a really good pier. It's it's weird. It's a weirdly good beer.
I never imagined that I would want something tasting like a Southern ice tea IPA, but it's actually pretty good. Like I'm like, and like I said, I it's so good that I did not save you one and I've already drank the first five. Oh my gosh. So I was going to tell you that I literally that's an [00:05:00] endorsement, right?
So what do you do if I have a beer that I want you to taste? I put it at the very back of the freezer and I know that to get to it and I'll give it to you next time I see you or whatever. But yeah, I drink all five and this is the sixth one. Like I'm going to act like I'd never drink this beer before, whatever, you know, we pop the tops in a minute, but it's actually really, really good.
It's a very weird flavor. And I don't usually go for weird flavored IPA's, but. Hey, pretty good. So you ready to buy? You're you're
Jon: making, yeah, you're making me want to go find this beer, so
Eric: I'll find it for you because I'm going to buy another six pack. It's that good? It's that good? Yeah. It's that good?
All right. You ready to pop cash? That check Eric Cash. There's no check involved, but Hey, if they want to send us some more fire Baker, we're all good. All right.
Jon: Ready? Yes, let's
Eric: open. All right. Three, two, one. That is one thing about this beer though, is it does. Get pretty foamy. I forget that. Oh really? Yeah.
Oh, I'm a caveman tonight. I did not get a glass and drinking straight from see how you can drink beer. That way I'm drinking. I'm drinking straight from the, can my tea, tea, beer from the can. That's that's that's Southern for you. It is. That's the way it is. I'm actually going to get a little, [00:06:00] like a little wedge and pop it in there.
Okay. Anyways. All right. So These are our first TV shows. So I, so as I like to do, whenever we first start to talk about this stuff, I always like to give you the chance to give a numerical representation of how you felt about these particular episodes compared to the rest of the books, the rest of the movies, the rest of the stuff that we've read.
I'm actually going to cut you off and go first. And just say, I'm not, I'm not to give it. I'm not gonna give a score yet because I want to give a score at the end of this. But I was actually really, really impressed with these episodes. I'd watch a little bit of clone Wars before in order of when it came out.
I think I started with season one. I watched the movies and stuff. I really enjoyed these two. What did you think?
Jon: So these episodes writing these episodes is going to benefit from being the first ones. And so it's something new and it's exciting and it's fun. I have not watched clone Wars. This is my first foray into it.
So it definitely benefits from that. The first episode I thought was pretty good. I [00:07:00] have some issues with the, the tactics, with the S with the choices made by the characters. Okay. The, the second episode I thought was better. Okay. I understand it touched on, it touched on a lot of it touched on a primary topic.
That's always been of interest to me.
Eric: Interesting. I'm interested to see what this is. Okay. So let's start off with episode one, the first episode that I hate seeing episode one again, just to make sure everyone's on the same page with us episode two 16. Yeah. This is the first episode that we've watched in chronological order.
We have jumped ahead to season two, episode 16 called cat mouse. It was written by Brian Larson and drew Greenberg, and I think originally aired in 2010. So we were going back a pretty good ways. We're going 11 years old here. Yeah. So, so both of these episodes revolved around a planet called . I think it was what I supposed to stop this.
Yeah. It was a very interesting planet. I had never heard anything about it before, and we haven't heard anything about it in the stuff that we've read thus far that I can remember. Wait, wait, wait. You're the,
Jon: you're supposed to be the star Wars knowledge guy. You do not
Eric: know this planet. I do not.
I do not know. Christoph says, [00:08:00] wait, wait, wait, wait, how do you do it? Christoph says, you're,
Jon: you're not. Oh, but they did these first two episodes deal with it. And I think they outright say the super-important planet of Chris stop sifts. So I thought, well, this must mean something to
Eric: somebody like Eric. Nope.
Doesn't mean anything. Hmm. Nope. Doesn't mean anything to me and my sweetie. I mean, th there's just nothing. I, I don't, I've never heard of this plan. And honestly, like whatever I was watching the episodes, I was kind of amazed at, it looks like this kind of like. Emerald city wizard of Oz type place.
Like, I don't know, every everything, everything was as green blue, which is fine. I'm down with the planets, having their own colors and that kinda thing. But what I didn't realize was that it was like sporadic buildings. And I don't know if that was because since this came out in 2010, not knocking on clone Wars thus far, because I've really enjoyed the graphics and everything, but some of the, the shots in the second episode, just show these big, huge buildings that just kind of pop up on the landscape.
Did you notice that.
Jon: I actually did notice that now, now I'm intrigued. Yeah. It's just kind
Eric: of a weird, it's kind of a weird
Jon: like crystal season. There was a limitation
Eric: of [00:09:00] the, I don't know. I don't know. It was very weird. It just seemed like a weird thing that like, I didn't notice that at all. Okay. Yeah. It just seemed like, it just seemed like a big flat plane of a city.
And then like every, like, I dunno, I'm just guessing them number. I don't know. I didn't do the math on it. Every five miles. You have this one big set of buildings that pop up and they look like Emerald city, and then you go another five miles and you got another one. It just looked weird to me. It wasn't bad.
It just was weird. I don't know. Hey, the people that Christoph says can do their own land management. I am not in charge of that. Yeah, they have their own zone boards can do whatever they do. I'm fine with it. But I'm just saying it was very odd to look at on the thing. And I didn't know if it was a technical limitation of the rendering of the cartoon itself or if it was supposed to be plainly though.
I don't know. Very different. Well,
Jon: I mean, 11 years ago they were basically drawing things with
Eric: crayons. So yeah. I mean, you know, you're probably talking Play-Doh at some points in these kind of like, you know, right. 2010 was fairly good graphics. Dark ages. Yeah. So let's talk, let's talk about the first episode, cat and mouse.
In guns and guns going down to bail out bail or bail out [00:10:00] bail. Can I look at that? I didn't even mean to do that. I honestly did not mean to do no. I really didn't. I didn't, I haven't written in my notes, but I didn't, I didn't let him anyways. And Ken's going to bail out bail from Kristoff's because Kristoff's, this is under attack.
It's under attack by. The separatists trade fair trade Federation. At this point, they're still separate. It's the Federation, but the San Francisco army, maybe that's the best way to say it, but he's been kind of pin down on Christophe, SIS. And there is a, there is a blockade going on. There's a blockade with some really weird Harry tooth guy.
I don't, I, I w Admiral trench, I don't know. What did you think about him? What'd you what'd you just call it?
Jon: Spider guy. I mean, I just call it spider graph.
Eric: So at first I was like, this is like, he's got four arms. This is like one of the guys who were like Dexter Jetsetter from the, you know, the, the second movie where, you know, he goes to visit OB one goes to visit him to learn about the Camino wins.
That's what it felt like at first. And it was always this well, no, this is a little bit of a Wolf
Jon: spider he's meant to be this menacing tarantula, like spider.
Eric: Oh, okay. Okay. [00:11:00] Fine. There was a little bit of water or two in there. The chops could have sound that he
Jon: would make. Yeah. Yeah. There's that? And he sounds exactly like he sounds like, yeah.
Whose water again? Water
Eric: who's
Jon: who's the, who's the gun gun
Eric: gun gun leader. Oh, cause I had
Jon: lost that.
Eric: yeah. Now that you say that I was thinking that I was talking about I was talking about water doing this, but you're right. It was Boston Ash. That was kind of
Jon: it. He really does have that deep resonant thing
Eric: and I'm supposed to be the star Wars guy, please. John you're showing me up here, boss Nash, pulling that out.
That's great. All right. Well, I didn't know the name. Yeah, you didn't but you knew it. Yeah. I would know when she started talking about,
Jon: I really thought it was the same voice actor
Eric: I really, really did. So one thing that I want to talk about is And I'm trying to remember if we've seen something with this.
And I think it's actually episode three, but [00:12:00] grievous a ship. It looks very similar to this one. And I don't know if you know that yet, because I don't know if you remember upset three that well. I don't. Yeah. So this, this ship seemed very similar to, Oh, I'm sorry. When I say the ship Admiral trench has his own massive hoking ship in this episode that ends up getting blown apart by a pretty sneaky mannequin and The ship, just the, maybe it's the bridge that reminds me of grievous some at some point in one of the movies, I'm not sure which, but the ship has just this big windowed front part, and this is massive, massive ship.
Cause especially compared to the, I guess the destroyers that the the rebel lions bring along or the clones bring along Yeah. And basically this is also the first time that I've heard of any type of cloaking ability in a star Wars movie. Have you? Oh, that was of course.
Jon: Yeah. Number one note that I made was way, way, way by weight stealth, Jack would kind of be a radical change to the star Wars universe.
Would it not
Eric: immediately? Yeah. They
Jon: tell you immediately, it has to be a prototype. It has to like, something has to go wrong with it and no one else ever tries to do it [00:13:00] again. So it's, it's a bit of a MacGuffin for this
Eric: episode, really McGuffin though, because they talk about how trench has faced other other cloaking device ships.
Before they say that they bring it back up like this. This is as if this has been a part of the, the universe for awhile, which dumbfounds me because
Jon: okay. Now I've got to watch it for the third time, because I don't remember
Eric: hearing that. Yeah, they talk about, so whenever, whenever trench, whenever they're talking about trench himself, they said, Oh, I thought he was dead or something like that.
Yeah. And and, but then trench comes back and he's like, no, I'm alive. And he's like, I'm faced these types of ships before. And and Ken's like, Oh wait, they faced, you know, clickable ships before. And then they go back and look through the, I guess, logs or whatever they have. And they're like, yeah, he has faced this.
And he's faced this by what we think is Anacon, deduces. That he's faced and beat these ships before based on the magnetic it's trails, I think is what they say in the show, the magnetic
Jon: skip half the episode or something. I don't remember any of this
Eric: conversation. Yeah. And then they go back the general guy that's on Anacon ship with him.
I forget the gentleman's name. [00:14:00] He goes back and looks this stuff up and he's like, Oh yeah, we think that he's probably beat these cloaked ships before by tracing their, their magnetic Renaissance or. Resonance. I, it was something magnetic signatures. Yeah. And then that, of course that gives you, it gives any can the idea that, Oh, here, here's what we're going to do to end this.
It was a good episode. I thought it was pretty good. Just give us, go ahead. Yeah. I
Jon: mean, of course. Okay. Starting out first things first, the very first thing we see is that yet again and again, is disobeying orders because that's what he does currently. That's all he does. Why even bother giving him an order in the first place?
That'd be a great episode
Eric: if he was just like, yes, sir. And then he actually did what he was supposed to do and all the clones of question. Yeah. That
Jon: would be hilarious if, if, if obiwan expected him to break the orders and go save the day and, and Ken's like, what were
Eric: you doing? Hey, John, wait is OB OB when that good of a teacher already.
Huh? All right. Just say it just saying he knows at this point, he knows at this point that Nick is [00:15:00] going to jump off the car and fly through the air and land on whatever car he needs to, to, to find the shape. You say, he's
Jon: got to give the order that he doesn't want followed in order to motivate an akin to break the order and do the thing that he wants to.
And actually
Eric: I think that OB one is that smart at this point, whether he's doing that here, I don't know, but yeah. Okay.
Jon: I don't know about all that. So when, when they when they're in the stealth ship, I mean, do they, do they have to fly right, right next to Mr. Bad guy ship
Eric: is that really necessarily begins the ship to make sure that your magnetic signatures kind of mess around with each other a little bit.
Oh,
Jon: okay. And so another question is the spider guy says that or that he gets report, that, that he's basically his blockade has, has succeeded. He he's one he's half a day away
Eric: from winning he's in for the fight.
Jon: But, but they said a meth business, brilliant tactician. And he does the stupidest possible thing.
Yeah, he does. I'm about to win if I just do nothing. Yeah. So I might as well do something and lose.
[00:16:00] Eric: Yeah. I think there's a little bit of hubris there. I mean, there's
Jon: there's I know. Yeah. I know. I knew you were gonna say that. Yes. There's hubris. Yes, yes, yes. But it kind of conflicts with what, how they set him up, you know, otherwise
Eric: let's just, well, they also make the, there's also the quote in the show where they talk about how yes.
Sometimes captains may not actually go down with their ship. Which already sets them apart, in my opinion, because you got that, you got that coming from the guy that's on and ship. That was of course the, the leader of the starter story. Who's hitching a ride with him again. And he says it was such disbelief that you really feel like there's nothing, that this guy would not go down with the ship with, but this guy, of course, you know, we thought we blew him up, but he must've escaped.
Jon: W, I mean, there's a rich tradition of that as doors, right? The
Eric: getting away. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Vader everybody. Yeah, no, yeah, totally agree with that. But I'm just saying that, that, that you can, you can see from the clone generals you, you can hear it in his voice, honestly. And honestly, with the voice acting, it was really good where he's like, you could, you could tell that there was such disdain for this guy because he left his ship, which I thought was a pretty [00:17:00] pretty good kind of signifier of where this guy's mindset is.
Sure makes sense. Okay. So did you notice them call out spark the brand new trooper that, that jumped on the ship? I noticed that. Does that mean something? I don't know. And I'm filing that away because usually those call-outs definitely means something. So that's something I thought away. And I was just like, I'm gonna write this down in my notes to make sure that I remember this because are we going to see spark later on?
We didn't see them in the next episode, but that is movable. It's him. Hmm, but they definitely are. They definitely give him that old congratulations kid. Like toward the end of the time, I figured he's going to show up at some point, but who does? Also another thing I wrote down in my notes, bill or Ghana literally says you are our only hope in a transmission.
Did you notice that? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I'm like, okay, we got a little bit of late connection. I like this, this, this is good. This is good. I enjoy this. And then also too, in my notes, I put down that this felt very like hunt for red October. Like very summery, Anish,
Jon: very submarines for October, but
Eric: several S submarine drama [00:18:00] desk.
And I liked that. I thought it was good. I thought that was kind of a good, like, kind of like theme to the episode. I'm like pretty good. It was pretty good up soon. I think that you like the second episode, you said a lot more than you liked the first I liked the first one. I think I'd like to move about 50, 50, honestly.
Jon: I liked, I liked the first episode. Okay. I did appreciate that the stealth aspect allowed them to play off of the submarine. I mean, they have, they have the, the S the sonar pings going, Oh yeah. During, during those aspects to really drive home, you know, we're not in a submarine, which is fine. I have no problem with that.
It actually, it's a good atmospheric.
Eric: Yeah. There's also the, the red light that we kind of stay on while they were cloaked. And I noticed that, like, you can definitely give you the summary feeling. I didn't notice that, but that that's a nice time because if you look back yeah. All the different they said they would pan the shots of all the different clinic troopers working in.
Everyone was paid in like this red light. And I was like,
Jon: I did, I okay. I, I did notice that I didn't click low. Okay. So let's, that's good. My, my question. Another question I had rather was the bombers passed them at one point there's they're [00:19:00] cloaked, super close,
Eric: super close.
Jon: So super close. So the bombers are going down there because Spiderman wants to provoke an attack.
So he's going to send the bombers down there to attack the base and make them cry for help. Yep. The bombers get down there almost like instantly. Anacon is flying a ship to get supplies down there and he never gets remotely close to the planet. Why is he going so
Eric: slowly? That's a good question. I, that I never thought
Jon: of.
He could be ferrying supplies up and back up and back
Eric: losing the stealth that way. Yeah. When they pass it, when they pass over the ship to when the ships close to the barbers pass by, they're not going that much faster than the ship itself, or at least from a perspective of the actual drawings or not.
That's interesting. I never thought of that. That's that's actually a pretty good but then the next
Jon: shot is there the ground. Yeah. They're literally right. You know, the ship. Yeah. Get down here.
Eric: Yeah,
Jon: they, all they had to say was something like, well, we can't go down there now because you know, there's no place to land.
All they had to do was, was put in one line to explain why they never got close to the planet. And it just bothers me [00:20:00] when there's a gap like that. So instead they take this stealth technology, this huge advantage for fairing supplies, like, like he was told to do. And he just basically tosses it away to D cloak.
50,000 miles away from the Capitol ship and fire some missiles, which gives the spider guy pulled plenty of time to bring up the shields
Eric: or the missiles. Yeah, I think, and, and, and that may be the, the give with Annie, Ken, where is where as you were kind of like, okay, he's, you know, this experience guy kind of knows what all to do.
I think that may be the, the writers showing you, Hey, he's not always right. You know what I mean? Like, there's going to be times that you're
Jon: a terrible tactician. He's terrible.
Eric: We've talked about this before, especially in the last, it was the last episode where we talked about the cornbread. Yes. Where the cornbread were, where he was kind of like, and I was like, I don't know, is he, is he so good that he looks bad or is so good?
Jon: He can, he can get away with, with making really bad decisions.
Eric: Yeah. And you can definitely tell in this, in this episode where the crew is [00:21:00] worried about it. Cause you can definitely tell that the, the commander that's tagged along with him you know, the clones, of course, they're, they're all going to support them no matter what, but you can definitely tell like the commander that was with him was kind of like, Oh, what are we doing?
Like, like, are you to, are you going to unclog and shoot? Are we not gonna cook with you? You gotta make a decision. Like he was really like, kind of pushing him as in like I'm somewhat seasoned at this. You're not, what are we doing here? You know what I mean? Yeah.
Jon: But, I mean, in the end, you have to just assume that Andy can just gets lucky.
He gets completely lucky that yes, he provoked a spider dude into dropping his shields and watching missiles, but anagen, there's no way he could possibly know that he could a outrun the missiles enough to be, get back to the capital ship in time before the shields could come back.
Eric: I think we're going to see a prevailing theme in these shows that I'm not saying this based off experience of watching them that.
That anticodon just does quote, unquote, get lucky. Like it's, it's a very, like, it's a very like weirdly McClory enforce inducing thing that he just literally gets lucky. A lot of times
[00:22:00] Jon: we do not say the N word around here.
Eric: And, and, and, you know, throw up in my, in my house, I say minnows, because that's what we do. Is it my idea? Oh, you have shorthand. Yeah, totally forbidden. Like going to dinner would have dinners. Really good. You know, the kids are always like, man, you really put your Meadows into this one dad. And I'm like, you know what guys, thank you.
It was delicious.
Jon: Okay. So making a mental note, never have dinner at that Thompson household. Again, never met something admitted. This is you put in this, I'm starting to wonder if this Midos or slang for something else that I don't want
Eric: to know about. No, no, no. Minnows are just the force, man. I mean, it's, it's, you know, that we operate anyways.
Jon: So I had a point you really threw me off with that whole thing. It was something about, so I have a problem with him just getting lucky like that. I do understand the type of show, the type of genre we're discussing here. I get it. That's going to happen. The [00:23:00] hero saves the day. It's just, I dunno. I dunno why it bothers me maybe because it's it's Oh, I know why bothers me.
This is what I was going to say earlier. So when you just get lucky. Over and over and over again, you're, you're reducing the stakes. You're it's not really
Eric: well that's, that's actually a really good segue concerned about you anymore. Let's let's start talking about the, the next episode that we're gonna review clone Wars, where they
Jon: just, they just do things without I agree.
And there's, there's
Eric: a bunch of that actually noted in my notes too, about this. So now we're going to move on to same 23 BBYO. This is Wars season one, episode 16, the hidden enemy. I think it was also written by green, true Greenberg where the did we just reviewed also? But again, we're on, Christakis, there's a little bit of weirdness at the beginning of this.
How do I say this? I don't want to say it's a weirdness there's a little bit emotional impact that I don't know if it's supposed to be there or not. At the beginning of this episode, basically. Obiwan and Anacon are in separate towers in this kind of paired tower structure. The clones that they are, I'm sorry.
The [00:24:00] the bots of they are fighting Jordans that they are fighting are coming in down the street. They both are part of some master plan here. That's gonna have an attack on the droids, but the is kind of. No, that this is going to happen and start to actually rise up into OB one's tower. And they started to take over the tower, OB one, of course, radios to Anika and I'm being attacked.
And again, looks over across the thing and then they shoot these bolt things across the two towers and they start to fly over them. And it's a very weird scene to me because it kind of shows the, and I don't want to use the term disdain, but the the cheap. NIS of the Clunes lives, because as they're going from tower to tower, as they're going over this, this cable three or four of the clouds get shut down, you know, in midair and just bonded their desks.
And you hear like, one of them actually screaming the cartoon. And it's a very weird scene to me because it just shows how disposable they are, the Jedi. Did you
Jon: catch that? Yeah. I think that's a lot of this episode. Yeah,
Eric: it is. It leads into, are parts of this episode. I mean, you know, we're, like I said, we're S we're a spoiler Phillip podcast, basically the [00:25:00] class warfare
Type situation raises its head because those droids knew to go up there because somebody was leaking secrets and it ends up being one of the clones. And the reasoning for him was specifically that were dispensable to you guys. You know, we, we don't matter to you. I mean, you know, you learn our names and then you don't really care about us pass that.
And he was like, I wanted to make a name for myself. I want to get off this planet. I want to get out of this army. Definitely an interesting kind of subplot
Jon: and not just that, but I want to. Lead the way for my brothers, you know, we should be free.
Eric: Yeah.
Jon: And that is something I have fought about.
That's one of the reasons I was really curious about the clone Wars just in general, but the TV show in particular is because that's a, that's a question that we've discussed in the past. These are slaves. These are grown tailor-made slaves. Yeah. Which, as we know in the star Wars universe, slavery's a thing.
Some people don't like it, but it's a thing. It happens a lot. Well, this is slavery on an industrial scale,
[00:26:00] Eric: their products, and that's, that's the really weird part about this whole. Clone Wars, in my opinion, is that the clones themselves understand, I guess, that they are our product and that they have to fulfill a duty, which is a really weird thing to think about with a life form.
Because like, if you go back to the slaves and stuff that you had with Aneka and stuff, you've got this dynamic that. That, that we all know slavery shouldn't happen, but it's a, it's a, it's a systematic thing that is happening and, and we're trying to find it, but we also have to kind of act within the system.
This is a completely different form of slavery. This is I'm buying you off. It don't get me wrong. It sounds very similar to not just
Jon: buying I'm I'm. Oh nine
Eric: crafting you. Yeah. Yeah. Like from the beginning, like, like, and I think that that's a very neat dynamic for Anacon specifically to see as he, as he does this.
But again, I don't know if it's his age. I don't know if it's where he's at in the, in this Jedi path or what have you, but he doesn't care about these guys at all. It's amazing. Isn't it? But [00:27:00] it's amazing. Totally different slate. I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, no, no, no, you're right. It's totally different. Yeah. Like, like of all the people here that should be worried about it.
Why is he not, you know,
Jon: because of the conceit that we see in episode two yeah. Wait, what is episode two? Yes. The conceit that they mentioned is that these slaves these Clem's have been bred and crafted to want to serve. Th this is their purpose. This is they, they are fulfilling their purpose by being in a clone army.
So, so that's the that's, that's how the the author is excusing this. Okay. I don't know.
Eric: I think it's setting it, setting it up for a free.
Jon: You're not meant to care about the clone. You're not the clone troopers. No,
Eric: this is the second episode. This is the second episode that we watched. I'm talking
Jon: about in the,
Eric: in episode two, the movie.
Okay. I got you
Jon: where you [00:28:00] discovered the clones and they'd be, they'd become a thing. Yes. Right? You're not meant to care for them in any way whatsoever. In fact, you're meant to be happy. They're on your side.
Eric: Yeah, Nicole. Yeah. That's a good goal.
Jon: Okay. So you're part now of the problem. So here, that's why I liked this episode because.
Well, what if, what if one of the clones for whatever reason, right? Maybe something went wrong, maybe it didn't quite take. Maybe he experienced a little something that, that started to make him question everything. And that's why it really slick as the guy's name kind of sympathize with him. No one else does no.
None of the characters
Eric: on screen. So I have a question to specifically ask you. Yes. What is the difference in slick and Finn from upset seven? Because I know you are not a fan of the last three, so that's not about like, what is, what is the difference in somebody realizing that they don't need to be part of this and trying to get out?
Jon: I I'm really tempted to give you a flippant answer because I, I [00:29:00] hold, I hold fin and such to stain. It was a character that they poorly developed, did nothing with miss amounted, to
Eric: nothing besides all that, though. His character backstory comes from the fact that he is trying to get out like th th yeah.
Do you think that they modeled him after slick? I mean, do you, do you think that that's a no.
Jon: Okay. Ken is not a clone. Finn is not,
Eric: I'm not, I'm not saying that, but he's been bred to understand that he needs to fulfill the certain thing inside the army. Yeah. And under the revenue. And he's like, let me do that.
Jon: Is that not in, in the, the, the later trilogy? Is that not? Is it not said. Or phrased as a, they were essentially brainwashed. It's not genetic alteration. The way we're talking about with these clubs, brainwashing, they basically were broken into being stormtroopers. And that's that. Wholly different topic.
And, and again, I think that they, they had, they set things up in, in that and then did nothing with it. Yeah. I don't have much of [00:30:00] an opinion. We'll get
Eric: to that. Whenever we get to this movie, I was just trying to say this, the parallels are still kind of there.
Jon: This is far more interesting. This is for me because this is a, a being who had his genetic code tailor made to be the perfect soldier.
What happened? What did he see? What, what, what changed in him? To make him want to be free UN an expression. We have not seen anywhere else in any of
Eric: the clones. Yeah. I, I will say that when we watch or whenever I was watching this, I did not expect this level of like, kind of like philosophy to come into, like the second episode, you know what I mean?
Like, like, I was digging it. Yeah. Oh no, no, no. I'm not saying I didn't like it. I love it. I, it's a great question. It's a question that
Jon: you just fall in line. You just want to close
Eric: the closes to fall off the line. I don't want them to be in the line. I want them to fall at the line, like the other guys then whenever they're crossing the two buildings.
Yeah. But it just, I think the dynamic between Anna can not understanding or respecting the fact that they are like, [00:31:00] Serving under him as quote unquote slaves. Like his mama.
Jon: There's no reason for him. There's no reason for him to look at them in any recognize any commonality with them
Eric: at all. You don't think so?
No, absolutely not. Wow. Cause, cause he looks at them as products, something he's bought or the whoever's bought. Yeah.
Jon: They were telling me somebody
Eric: is buying. Whoever bought them, ended up delivering them to him and he looks at me. He looks at them as central findable people. Yeah. Th the tools. Yes.
Interesting. Yeah. That are saying, I mean, that's
Jon: what I get very clear to
Eric: me. No, I'm not disagreeing with you based off the second episode. I'm not at all. Like I agree with you, like for this episode, and I'm eager to see if that changes or does not change or is that something that helps move him to the other side, to where he's like, what are we doing?
You know, like, like we're just letting people die, left and right. And don't get me wrong. I understand that they're clones, but they're still dying. Yeah, let's wait. Let's I'm, I'm completely speculating. I'm not basing this off
Jon: based on where we know his characters [00:32:00] going. Come on. He's never going to have that, that moment of wait a minute.
These are real people that's never going to happen. Yeah. I don't know. No, no. So notice that we are focusing on the B story here, right? Because it's far more interesting than the, the kind of generic, a story, which is antiquing. And obiwan saying, Hey, you know what? We should go check out the bad guy have headquarters.
Why not? Let's just go over there. Yeah. And there's no danger. They just waltz in. It's a trap. And, and they have that smug, arrogant, you know, sorry for them. They, they think they're going to trap us. The only highlight of that was, it was a chance to see me again. Cause you know, she's got those wrong levers that she's got to pull.
I'm kidding. And so she's you notice
Eric: what it says. We need to go back and look and see if it's the same voice work. Cause I don't know if it is so for those that no, it is. And I
Jon: looked it up docu job.
Eric: Great. Great pull it. I I'm really excited for you that you actually, you know, we're still are thinking of asthma.
So for those that didn't listen, whenever you [00:33:00] reviewed the dokie jet, I lost audio drama. The sash was a new character that John had never encountered before. And one of my favorite characters, I think of the star Wars universe, just because it's such a, like just gritty character and And you said that the person sound like, or the kit and that she sounded like as may from a in-person group.
Is that right? Yep. Oh yeah. Yeah. So, so it's very fitting that the SA and I'm amazed that it's the same person in the voice work. I did not know that actually impressed that you looked it up, but that's what I was going to ask if I had, I have it in my notes, literally I have Assagioli right. Three exclamation points right after it.
I did not expect her so early in the series or so early in the In the BBY version of the story in 22 BBY, I thought she'd come along a little bit later, but I'm glad that you recognized her immediately. And her Eartha Kitt like voice.
Jon: Well, yes, only because of docu Jetta laws. Right. Without that.
This I would have thought, okay, well there's a bad person. You can tell that they're tropes for, for bad guys. She's hitting them all. I ha I, I don't know anything about her. I th I [00:34:00] suspect that if you watched this in the actual broadcast order, you've seen her before at this point. I don't know.
Eric: It's a great question.
I don't know. It's the first season, episode 16. So but again we. We're watching these in chronological order. So I don't know if you've seen her before. I would, I would
Jon: assume you had cashed order broadcast order. I'm betting shoes earlier in season
Eric: one. Yeah. She'd always have to be because it was no introduction whatsoever
Jon: to her otherwise.
Yeah. You, you've no idea who this person is. None at all. She's a bad guy with her dual lightsabers because you know, everybody gets to a lightsabers now cause it's no longer special. And she, this is what's really puzzling to me, so right when they meet her. She runs up this pretty, pretty steep set of steps.
Eric: Okay. Yep. She has the high
Jon: ground.
Eric: It's over. Well, there's two of them though, John. I mean, it's, it's, it's a little
Jon: different, she doesn't sh right. She doesn't win. So then she goes up more steps, even higher [00:35:00] ground, and she's still not over. I
Eric: don't understand. Yeah, I, I, yeah, there's there, there was no introduction whatsoever to her.
So I, so I, I completely agree with you that there's no th th she's gotta be seen before. So if I'm the series and the first 15 episodes of season one, for it to make sense. Yes. Yeah, I agree. So I'm still kind of confused though, as to her purpose on this planet, like, did someone in this episode, the episode never talks about it, but did docu or did somebody sent her down to kind of.
Keep the Jedi busy until what what was the guy that wash? What was his name? Wash the guy who floats like a leaf in the wind down. What is the guy that actually betrays everybody, the client. What's his name? Oh slick. Oh, slick. Yep. So, so that's what she, it seems like she's there to buy the time, the slick and then destroy all the machinery and everything that they were holding has or sorry that this one's I've done the string.
So it was correct. Yeah. So she didn't really seem like a very big batty in this episode, if that makes sense. Like, she's there mostly to [00:36:00] like kind of detain the grumpy. Jedi that they knew what they're doing when they drive right into the trap. You know, like it's more like a, like, I'm going back to my word hubris.
It's more of a play on the, on the jetties versus this time that she's just trying to keep them busy so that, you know, they can lay on all the other clones and have everybody else there. No, there's a
Jon: definite theme of. People letting their arrogance get the better of them. I know William would be nodding his head vigorously at this point, but that is clearly a theme that we're the we're having thrust upon us over and over again.
Eric: Yeah. Especially in these two episodes, I especially feel in these two episodes. And again, there's also that whole and edge of not caring about stuff either. Like it's such a, like just a. Yeah. The, the yeah. The gender grading on you at this point, in my opinion, they are like, maybe it's because of the chronological order.
Jon: It's not that well. Okay. Grading in some sense. Yeah. Cause you, you're a terrible tactician. You make horrible decisions and you just get away with it. Cause you know, your genetic plot armor, so that's [00:37:00] fine. But your, your, your arrogance is showing you don't care about, I mean, they were, when they were driving to the bad guy headquarters, They didn't
Eric: care?
No, it was, it was it was a fun ride. I totally agree with that. It's a fun ride.
Jon: Exactly. Yeah, it was a road trip. Hey, let's go. Let's go mess up some guys in Tijuana right there. Why would I care about that
Eric: in Tijuana?
Jon: That damn donkey
Eric: smell shot. Shouldn't have took my peanut butter anyways. Go back.
Okay. I agree. I agree with you that, that it is a very These two episodes in this order, and that's the best way to say it. And I almost want to watch them in normal order just to see if this hubris has been building up, but in chronological order, we definitely see that the Jedi are just full of themselves at this point, like completely people themselves.
And I totally agree with your comment about William being spot on, you know, when he talked about this and hope and the great thing is, is we're going to have William back. For next podcast, he's going to be on our Columbus review episode, the [00:38:00] customers' movie review episode, but you have the Jedi or just, and we've talked about in the last, I think three podcasts where Yoda is just kind of being an ass to like, it's just the gen.
I are in a rough spot right now. Like it's just not a good feeling. There's not
Jon: even in these episodes and you. Drag his corpse into to flog it. What are you
Eric: doing? Yeah, because we talked about in the last two episodes, especially at the end of the comics serious, it was Maul. And the other one, he's just so full of himself, but he's not in them.
He's
Jon: not in these
Eric: episodes. I know. No, he doesn't deserve it. He doesn't deserve it. Cause he's leading the Jedi into oblivion at this point anyways. Okay. So overall we, we we've talked about the two episodes we've talked about both of them. They're fun. Give me a score of Oh, number one, number one.
Okay. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to give me a one day one through 100 score of the clone Wars series as a whole thus far, and then give me also based on two episodes, that's kind of like, yeah. I mean, Andrew and John, I'm going to ask you this, every single podcast. So get ready. And then, and then also give me each of your two episode scores.
All
Jon: right. So [00:39:00] clone Wars as a, as a series, I'm going to say it's. Ooh 85 is a safe bet higher than that. I'm not really sure yet it was fun. It was fun. I have to see how it develops now, the individual episodes, the first episode overall, it was okay. It just kind of bothered me a little bit with, with some of the choices made.
Which may or may not be a thing maybe, maybe they're supposed to bother me. I'm suspecting that they really weren't supposed to bother me and they bother me. So, yeah. That's on the, on the lower side of the
Eric: eighties as someone that knows you very well, there's going to be stuff that bothers you about all these sites says, but I'm just saying that like overall, you said 85 for the series thus far.
And then what would you say about the two different episodes?
Jon: That that's because the first episode was a low eighties and the second episode was a high eighties. Okay. I really appreciated them touching on the topic of clone slavery and the desire for [00:40:00] freedom and what that means that Oh, and the whole cat and mouse thing about trying to find the spot.
That was good. That was really good. The other half of the episode, whatever. But, but the, the part that dealt with the clones was far more interesting. I'm
Eric: going to, I might actually agree with you and I'm going to give thus far the clone Wars series as a whole on 85, but I'm going to go with probably in a narrower band and 84 and in 84 for episode two seasons or sorry episode 16, season two, and then an 86 for episode or sorry, season one, episode 16.
Sorry. Getting more confused. I think that both of these were very good episodes together. Like, I think the, both of them were about equal in my opinion. Whereas you had definitely thought that the latter was a little bit better. But more than that. Okay. We're going to converge on the same number though.
85. Well, yeah, but, but
Jon: it's, if you want to get more fine grained. So to split the one 16 episode into two parts, right? Story, a story B story, a an 80, 85, whatever. It's [00:41:00] fine. A little bit of Jedi action. Don't understand why she didn't win because she had the high ground. But if you look at the base story of the clones, trying to uncover the spy, that was like 92.
Why
Eric: do you see this? The B story? I felt like that was the jest of that. I thought that was a story. I feel like that was the introduction of like, Like, we've got bigger things to think about here. Like this is not condoned to this, you know, what's the GI Joe motto like a, the battle versus the war. Like this is the battle.
The battle for this episode is and Anacon. But the greater war is the fact that these clones are starting to understand the fact that no, that's where this is going. I don't know. I, it I'm being completely. I don't read
Jon: that at all. In fact, I was going to say, I don't either the end of the episode was basically sweep it under the rug.
Move on. We've got a job to do. That's how I read the end of that episode. Yeah. I don't know. That's why I call it the beast story. We shall see
Eric: John. We shall see it's it's a good, I like it. I like, I like it a lot. There's that underlying [00:42:00] drama that I, I, knowing that every clone that we watch from here on out, it could be somebody that's just like, I'm not doing this anymore.
Like that adds a lot to the show, in my opinion. He might kill you in your sleep? Yes, seriously? Yes, seriously. And you would know which one he is because they will look the same. So I'm, that's some of my regular hair. You don't know. Other than hairstyle, you can shave the thing off and you all
Jon: know what that was.
That was another one. Interesting aspect of that story is yes, they're all supposed to look the same, but inevitably they had differences pilly. And then some in fact, the, the, the, the fact that some of them shaved their heads, some of them have, you know, like the standard haircut, some of them have different like aspects or scars or what have you.
It shows you that even though they're supposed to be the same creature, The the, the in individualization is inevitable. This is, and it does make me wonder,
Eric: this is the whole school uniform thing though, right? Like everybody always talks about how, like you sure. Yeah. Everybody always talks about how yeah.
You can make everyone in the school wear the same uniform. If you go to a private school, like my [00:43:00] kids go to public school, but if you go to a private school, you can have a school uniform, but people are going to find ways to do small. Teeny things that make themselves stand out. Somebody may wear a headband, somebody's a red headband or in their hair, or they may wear like blue socks or something like that.
There's your all humans are always going to find a way to distinguish themselves from other humans. So it doesn't matter. That's true
Jon: that Nooner that's true, but the clone troopers, they will, are supposed to be different now. They're not there. So they're supposed to be tailored. So
Eric: the crafted, the core of that is the fact that they are supposed to be like that whenever they were bought, but whenever they actually got delivered, they're still human.
There's going to be differences. There's going to be scars. There's going to be everything. And then
Jon: that's an aspect. I, I hope we explore a totally do I, no idea if we do, but the Gnoc ones. Clearly took great pride in the perfection of their clones. And we've already seen two episodes into the clone Wars that that's not [00:44:00] true, but they're alive.
Eric: Yeah. This is the whole reason, you know, Finn got the blood on this helmet right away. All right. So what we'll talk about a little bit. All right. So, so there, there's a new segment that I want to add to the interview show. This is going to be kind of different than what we've done thus far, but I was thinking about it, but.
You and I work at this concept that you and I consume a lot of television. We consume a lot of pop culture. We consume a lot of different things. The last five minutes of this podcast, I just want to dedicate to what are you consuming? This can be books. This can be movies, TV shows, whatever you want.
Just give me something that you've watched and that you've really enjoyed in the past, you know, two or three weeks or since the last podcast.
Jon: Go well, the number one thing has to be one division right now. That's what everybody is focused on. If you're a scifi guy, so the girl or girl. I knew as soon as I said that, I said it, right.
You said it, you know what I mean? Come on, go ahead. If you're a saw fire person. Yes. One division is really, really something. This is not a one division podcast, so I don't need to go into that, [00:45:00] but it's just as amazing as Mandalorian was. I mean, it's a really top
Eric: I put on the exact symbol was Mandalorian.
And I think so, but, but that's, that's,
Jon: that's not daily. That's once a week. Right. So my daily consumption, right. Is because I discovered that an old friend of mine is now on HBO max with, with like 4k rendering or whatever it is, Babylon five. So really my way through, Oh God, I can't. So once I started, I
Eric: can't stop.
I'm not, I'm not displaying Belmont five at all. I'm asking. I did not know that HBO went back and redid them in 4k. Yeah.
Jon: Wow. Yeah. After, after apparently I never had owned Babylon five to have it on DVD or anything like that, but apparently now I follow JMS on Twitter and he's talking about how for forever, for years, the only copies out there were just crap.
Eric: J
Jon: Michaels Stravinsky. I don't know. I'm being completely honest. I'm going to mess up his last name. I don't know who you're referring to. I'm gonna mess up his
Eric: last name. You said JMS is in like a, like, it was like a little bit
[00:46:00] Jon: Okay. So you're just trying to slip that in and get away with it. Thank you for calling me out. I will call you out
Eric: three times.
Jon: So anyway, so yes, it's on HBO, max. It's. It's. It still has those limitations, you know, the four, three aspect ratio and what have you, but it, it really does look good. It's a good look and show.
Of course, if they went back and redid the effects, it would be phenomenal, but they don't have the rights to do that. Or no one wants to pay for it. Nonetheless, I am about halfway through it and I, I, you can't stop. So what
Eric: is w so, so, and I never, I don't think I've watched a single episode of Bible on the five.
What my God, sorry. What how many seasons and how many episodes per season. Babylon five
is
Jon: known as being one of the first. It had a five-year arc planned out. Wow. Okay. Well, okay. So it had a wrinkle. I know this is not a Babylon five podcasts, but the installation, they fast, they face cancellation, like over and over again.
End of season four or leading up to the [00:47:00] end of season four, they were pretty sure they were going to be canceled. And so he wrapped up an entire season's worth of stories in like half a season. And that it worked. It was fine, but the, but then they were renewed on like T and T or something. And so they have it
Eric: all.
Well,
Jon: no, he decided, okay. When I've got a season five, I'll just keep going beyond the original ending of the show. And it was okay. It was okay. Go season five has its ups and downs. It has its moments, but the first four seasons and especially seasons three and four are off the charts. Insane.
Eric: I may have to watch this.
I, I, I've never been, how do I say this? I've enjoyed star Trek movies, but I've never really ventured beyond that. Other than watching the occasional TV show. Like I know I could sit in and watch any star Trek next generation. And I'd probably say that I've probably seen maybe. Half of all the episodes that have actually been out there, [00:48:00] but I've never watched them like any type of order or anything like that.
Like, like in a,
Jon: well, I will tell you that, that to get to the nitty gritty, the first season of Babylon five, just, just do it. It's, it's really hit and miss it was finding its legs, but there are some critical episodes in there that you have to consume. And then when you hit season two, you're off to the races.
Eric: Excellent. Let me try this. We have
Jon: that. We'd
Eric: have that common, common dial max yet you need to, so basically every year I try to watch band of brothers and I think I'm pretty sure that's on the video max at this point. Yeah. Yeah. So, so HBO max is just like enriching itself. The thing with me is, so I would keep an HBO subscription during game of Thrones.
Loved game of Thrones. Last season sounds kind of similar to your Babylon four kind of thing, where they knew they had different reasons, different reasons you have a financial reasons probably, but they, they kind of crammed everything into that. And can you imagine to game of Thrones the next [00:49:00] season, having actually not had the same problems, you know, like, like you actually get to create another season after all this, I mean, or Martin would have been, you know, might exploded.
Yeah. So it sounds interesting. I need to watch it. I, everybody that I talked to always raves about it, you know, and, and they I've heard people describe the ending to that series as a downer. So you, you kind of say that they've carried it a little bit more, but I, I don't know. I, I just haven't, I haven't watched
Jon: the ending again, the original ending of the series at the end of season four.
It's so nice. It's so wonderful. And you got to remember, this was back in the nineties when you didn't have arc shows like that. Now you have nothing, but art shows. Okay. Back then it was up against things like deep space, nine where every episode where they developed an art too, but originally star Trek was very bottle episode.
You know, we meet an alien and this happens. Okay. Next episode, that never happened. Now the whole new universe, basically the same characters bottle episodes.
Eric: Yeah. So, so yeah, and that's, and also too, you have [00:50:00] to give, and I don't know who the original creator of that show was, but give them credit for saying, Hey, you've got five seasons to do something because that was gotta be unheard of back then.
Like it was, it had, you know, crater was JMS, whoever you call them, whatever you call it, stress and stress it. Yeah. It's okay. It doesn't matter. Interesting. Yeah. So, so that's, that's. Yeah, I I'm going to, I'm going to go try to watch it. I'm going to, I need to, so HBO max is, or like one of those things where like I have to plan I have to, I have to strategize about when I'm going to start the subscription and when I'm going to end the subscription so that I can get all the stuff that I want to watch in like the most finite period of time and not spend tons of money and just have it sitting and getting my credit card every month.
And, and that's
Jon: the thing. Remember that, that this is, this is old school TV. So each season of Babylon five, it's like 26
Eric: episodes. Oh, that long. Okay. Okay. I thought, Oh yeah. I thought we were talking about like 12 to three. All right. So let me, let me go, let me go. You answered my last question because I'm a huge, huge loss fan, and I want to go back and re-watch it at some point, but I know that out of like the 2223 episodes that you'll get a [00:51:00] season, you'll get filler episodes.
How many, what percentage of filler episodes did you have on Babylon five? I actually
Jon: have a lot of Babylon five knowledge except for how to pronounce the guy's last name. So in the first season, the first season was meant to be 20% Ark, 80% standalone. The second season, 40% arc, 60% standalone. Their third season was, was 60 40, and it flipped over eight.
That was his plan. His plan was season five to be nothing but arc, everything got messed up. So, so the math doesn't work out, but you'll, you'll, you'll see that. Not right away because you have to send it to get it, but you'll see in season one, you'll think, well, I was told this was an arc show. What, what is that about that that has nothing to do with anything because that's how it starts.
It was, it was the intro to an arc because again, the timeframe that timeframe, that's not how shows work. So he, yeah, he kind of had to lead you in to no, no, no. We're going to tell a multi-season story.
Eric: I'm trying to think. [00:52:00] Was there anything in the nineties that, that had the, like you haven't yet essentially sway signed did well, no, no, no, no.
I'm talking about, not even Saifai like, like I'm talking to like Dallas, like, like stuff, like, you know, that you just had long running shows that had Mo they had a season arc usually, but they never have like a alarm I'm sounding like I know down grand picture, but no grand picture for the entire series.
It was more like it was more along the lines of like, let's get one season's kind of arc out of the way, but we're not going to like come and link them until we get to that next season. So that it's more than
Jon: you even understand, because he had arcs for each character in the show, and this is not Marvel, right.
MCU, where they lock these guys into a hundred year contracts. If something happened to, to the actor and they wanted out, which. Did happen several times. He had escape patches for those characters where this can happen and they're off the
Eric: shelf. That's impressive. What he
Jon: did is so impressive. And I think,
Eric: did he record those escape patches?
Jon: No. No. For example, [00:53:00] I'm not going to spoil anything here, but there's a character let's say season two, where suddenly this thing happens and, and that characters gone, it makes complete sense in the universe, but. That wasn't skate patch that did not have to happen Gaia. So th th that character had a different arc originally.
Gotcha.
Eric: Gotcha. Which makes, yeah, that's, that's impressive. The foresight, especially with being so early. I mean, I, yeah, again, the Andy Griffith show didn't really have an alpha Barney, you know, it's one of those things where it's kind of like a, it's a, it's a knowing that you have a show that you get to create for, what do you, I think you said 20 episodes, a season for five seasons.
You have a hundred hours to devote to a story that you want to tell. That's crazy to think about nowadays.
Jon: Well, what happens different though, because you have things like. Mandalorian with 10 episodes,
Eric: you know, so that's going to be based in, then we're going back to Disney here. That's going to be based on star power though, because you know that those people are going to go.
So, [00:54:00] and this was the problem, the game of Thrones, those people got so popular that they commanded so much money that you couldn't continue. So, so, so back then though, you didn't have that variable, at least at that point, you know, but likewise,
Jon: The, the, you had actors say, Hey, this is not developing. My character is not developing.
Like I want, I want more screen time. Yeah. And yeah. I, I can go star on this. Sit-com over here. You know, let me out my, let me out of my contract. And he foresaw that, that was, that was an eminent possibility.
Eric: and that's where I was asking you, like, number one, the foresight of that's amazing. But number two, if you had a recorded originally, like right when you first got with the character, a death scene or whatever, whatever the out was.
Yeah. That would be more impressive to me. You know what I mean? Like you really covered it knowing that this could happen later on. That's impressive to me. Don't get me wrong. They're the original still present, but I'm just saying that would be even more impressive. Like the first scene that these people do is their out scene if they leave.
Jon: Well, I, I do have to say as a final thought, because we haven't even talked about [00:55:00] what you're consuming at this point, that a lot of people it seems like a lot of people really don't care for Babylon five. They view it as derivative, or I don't know, boring or something. I've never really understood the hate because I'm a fan of the show, but you need to try it out and see what you
Eric: think.
Yeah, I will. And that's, I'm looking for other things. So like although you're still talking, like you said five seats, that's a hundred episodes. That's a lot. So I wanted to get into the wire. I've never watched the wire. And I only watched breaking bad up through season one. And if I've always wanted to go back and rewatch, those shows, I never watch mad men either.
I've always wanted to go back and watch it. It's such an investment though. Like it was such an investment that I'm just kind of like, I'll do it at some point. You know, I'll do it at some point when I have the time, because there's so many episodes, honestly, I'm not gonna lie, but I'm on five. It feels like I'm looking at a hundred dollars.
Jon: There's a huge difference between breaking bad and something like Babylon, fuck breaking bad. I started and then dropped. And then went back to because people wouldn't shut up about it. And I'm, I made myself go through that series. It's not a fun show. Yeah, no, [00:56:00] if you get invested in the characters
Eric: at all, it's not fun.
Like I said, Oh, I season one of breaking bad and I was just like, the show is great. I understand why people love it, but I'm not feeling great. I'm not feeling great at the night. I'm just kind of like, it's
Jon: icky. I don't want, I don't want to, I don't like this things are gonna
Eric: happen. So let me get what I've been watching lately.
And it's not a huge list and it's not going to incur any type of a discussion like yours did because I, I really enjoyed you talking about yours. Number one, I watched last night or two nights ago, I watched a attack on Titan the live action version. Did you ever watch a talk at Titan the enemy? No.
Okay. So it's clearly hyper violent glory, gory, a crazy enemy and, and somebody wouldn't made it a live-action of it. And it's actually pretty good. I just watched part one of the other night. It was pretty good tonight on my queue. I have there's an somebody was talking about. There's on Amazon prime.
There's a show called the booksellers or a documentary called the booksellers, which is like, I think it's like two hours, which is about New York city bookstores. It's so rare books. So, so [00:57:00] as you can see, I'm not as exciting, but I'm excited. Why's that tonight. So that's, that's what I think that I had on my line.
I actually, I want to go check
Jon: out the booksellers. That sounds intriguing.
Eric: Yeah. That's pretty good. Yeah. So that, and also I got looped in three. Which is an anime looping through the first, which is an animated movie on Blu-ray the other day that I needed to watch also. But of course that's about two and a half hour movie, something like that.
Probably not gonna watch that tonight, but anyways, good. I enjoy this new segment. I enjoy branching out a little bit more than the star Wars universe to just show whether the things that we're consuming our opinions on are the things that we're consuming. So a good, this worked out really well. So next week we we'll have William back.
We will be talking about the clone Wars, the movie, which. We had a discussion with William about two weeks ago that we were talking about the clone Wars movie is actually the first four pilot episodes combined for the clone Wars before they actually came out. So we're kind of going back in time to watch that, but that is the next thing.
That's a, it's still in 22 BB Y on our schedule and that should be pretty good. And it'll be good to have lean back. We haven't talked to William in a while and it's going to get him [00:58:00] back until then stay healthy, stay safe. John, thanks for joining me again. Thank you. Good time as always. We'll see you guys next time on episode 17, where we're reviewing the clone Wars movie.